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  #41  
Old 1st May 2017, 07:03 PM
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pipbarber pipbarber is online now
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Default Re: Homo Deus: A brief History of Tomorrow

I really liked Harari's take on virtual reality VR in his discussion with Sam Harris. The context was a discussion on what people will do when there is a mass 'useless class' that have no function, no job, no way of contributing to the economy - where will people find meaning in their lives without work, what will they do all day?

Assuming of course there is some kind of universal base income (a big assumption), one possibility is that folk will just tune into VR and find their meanings there, all day, everyday.

Harari's take on that was so what? Havent we been doing that for thousands of years? You get points for praying five times a day, you get points for going to church, you lose points for homosexual activity, you get points for giving money, you lose points for eating pork etc And then at death, if you have enough points you advance to the next level.

Yep...that sounds like virtual reality to me.
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  #42  
Old 2nd May 2017, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Homo Deus: A brief History of Tomorrow

Perhaps we need to go on a recruitment drive.
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  #43  
Old 2nd May 2017, 08:59 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Homo Deus: A brief History of Tomorrow

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pipbarber said View Post
I really liked Harari's take on virtual reality VR in his discussion with Sam Harris. The context was a discussion on what people will do when there is a mass 'useless class' that have no function, no job, no way of contributing to the economy - where will people find meaning in their lives without work, what will they do all day?

Assuming of course there is some kind of universal base income (a big assumption), one possibility is that folk will just tune into VR and find their meanings there, all day, everyday.

Harari's take on that was so what? Havent we been doing that for thousands of years? You get points for praying five times a day, you get points for going to church, you lose points for homosexual activity, you get points for giving money, you lose points for eating pork etc And then at death, if you have enough points you advance to the next level.

Yep...that sounds like virtual reality to me.
As you say, and as Hariri says, this is nothing new. We have this thing called an economy which as I think he pointed out is a human invention) and to stimulate the economy we play games of soccer, race cars around in circles, spend money at casinos, race dogs around in circles, build bigger and bigger houses and mansions, effectively digging holes, moving the holes, etcetera.
We even claim that coal mines have to be created in order to create jobs. We could just as well pay them to dig up non-carboniferous earth if we only want to do it to create jobs and not out of some real need.

We do all these things to help us determine how we will distribute the fruits of human ancient development such as farming from domesticated crops and animals, together with the plunder of nature and other humans.

Wealth already determines who is disposable, who is useless, and who reaps the benefit. There is a book called "disposable people" very aptly titled to describe what has historically happened and continues to happen.

Consider our flash trendy rayon clothes. The super toxic effects of manufacture of this cloth are borne by the disposable class in developing countries but the benefits are worn by westerners and the rich. It is the abuse of entropic process of outsourcing the death causing chemicals to be borne by the poor workers.

Hence money in this case, as in all cases, is for the purpose of insulating the holder of it from death and injury. Those who lack it may have an increased risk of facing death. That is the whole point of money that those who lack the money then have to face that increased risk of death for the benefit of the people who hold the money.

Edit: Money is the newer form influencing distribution of the earth among the individuals of humanity, indeed the distribution of access to life itself. Traditionally it was also determined on the basis of race, for example through the imposition of slavery, colonialism, genocide including the holocaust. Nowadays it is a combination method of nationality and money.
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Last edited by wadaye; 2nd May 2017 at 09:14 AM.
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  #44  
Old 3rd May 2017, 10:02 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Homo Deus: A brief History of Tomorrow

Strato do you have a take on how any of this fits into Darwin's theory of evolution? Ultimately there must be a class of people who undertake these developments in order to improve their fitness vis the rest of humanity and creation
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  #45  
Old 3rd May 2017, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: Homo Deus: A brief History of Tomorrow

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Strato do you have a take on how any of this fits into Darwin's theory of evolution? Ultimately there must be a class of people who undertake these developments in order to improve their fitness vis the rest of humanity and creation
From my understanding of homo deus, and Strato may see it differently, Harari's idea is that evolution by natural selection will be superseded with evolution by intelligent design, at least for homo sapiens. Welcome to smart-evolution. I think thats what is being suggested in homo deus.
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  #46  
Old 4th May 2017, 07:19 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Homo Deus: A brief History of Tomorrow

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pipbarber said View Post
Quote:
wadaye said View Post
Strato do you have a take on how any of this fits into Darwin's theory of evolution? Ultimately there must be a class of people who undertake these developments in order to improve their fitness vis the rest of humanity and creation
From my understanding of homo deus, and Strato may see it differently, Harari's idea is that evolution by natural selection will be superseded with evolution by intelligent design, at least for homo sapiens. Welcome to smart-evolution. I think thats what is being suggested in homo deus.
Well there is gene editing but modern competitive society is largely about sexual selection. Its only when it comes to infant mortality, famine and genocide that it reverts to the more survivalist forms of natural selection. Even gene editing itself is only a form of self selection. There is still a process of selection going on which has to slip into the universal forms of natural selection.
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