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  #21  
Old 18th January 2017, 09:41 PM
surreptitious57 surreptitious57 is offline
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Default Re: My turn to bite the bullet, blog happened

Assuming death is eternal [ and there is no reason to think otherwise ] then it should not be feared. We live in more enlightened times now so the
irrationality of our ancestors with regard to it can be discarded. What exactly is there to fear anyway about spending the rest of eternity in a state
of pain free non consciousness? I made my peace with death two years ago and consequently am no longer afraid of it. And I am now as free as I
have ever been. So it can therefore take me whenever it wants
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  #22  
Old 18th January 2017, 11:05 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: My turn to bite the bullet, blog happened

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Assuming death is eternal [ and there is no reason to think otherwise ] then it should not be feared.
If there is any quality in life that is justified to feel fear about, it's death.

Now, I am not saying I share in this fear, but it is a perfectly reasonable and rational fear. What happens is that you cease existing, nothing ever happens again, you lose everything about being you, all the joy of living. That you're not aware of any of this is about what happens after, the fear is the thing that happens before.


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surreptitious57 said View Post
We live in more enlightened times now so the irrationality of our ancestors with regard to it can be discarded.
That's a rather stupid thing to say. Know thyself requires some context, or you're just going to keep reinventing the philosophical wheel.


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What exactly is there to fear anyway about spending the rest of eternity in a state of pain free non consciousness?
As I just explained, you're not reasoning correctly here. The fear is not about what happens after death, but about being alive and losing that.

I wouldn't consider my position on it fear, but given the option on my deathbed to live longer in a healthy state, then of course I'd elect to do that. Life is to be squeezed by the balls and er... sucked...dry... not sure about the mixed metaphor there, but the principle holds!

It's better to be alive than not. I take it you understand that as you are here having a conversation.


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surreptitious57 said View Post
I made my peace with death two years ago and consequently am no longer afraid of it. And I am now as free as I
have ever been. So it can therefore take me whenever it wants
I am also at peace with death - studying Biology and human evolution rather does put your little life in perspective. Also, my mother very nearly died when I was 2, so I think I've always been aware of the fragility of life. But that doesn't mean I don't want it, that doesn't mean that I am happy to die. I'd rather live forever, given the choice (in fact, that's a theme in my epic fantasy series that I've been writing for eons). But I very much accept that death is part of life for now. It'd be a right bugger though if they discover the keys to longevity after I'm gone!
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  #23  
Old 19th January 2017, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: My turn to bite the bullet, blog happened

I would also like to add a broader perspective on death. That is that there are a lot of other people that I know and love, and other life forms that I know and love, and I don't when them dying either. I am aggravated at the loss of family, friends and pets. Its painful.
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  #24  
Old 19th January 2017, 10:33 AM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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I have added a page to the blog "The Art of Thinking Nexus".

There is a methodology, The Lean Startup, which I am applying to my blog output. I am basically going to toss stuff out there after only the briefest of editing, and even incomplete. Then I will refine the page or post, including responding to everyone else's input. It will be interesting to see if this works.

I have enjoyed the discussion about longevity here. I don't think it requires any adjustment to the thought bubble, which is probably not as subject to revision as a more dedicated page like the Nexus.
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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

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  #25  
Old 23rd January 2017, 02:21 PM
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And now behold the awe and wonder of.... Manipu Labels.
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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  #26  
Old 23rd January 2017, 10:04 PM
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Azurisan21 Azurisan21 is offline
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Default Re: My turn to bite the bullet, blog happened

You're all putting together what I would consider under my own terms, 'Human/Intellectual Excellence', 'Human Assets', 'Human Integrity', etc.
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  #27  
Old 23rd January 2017, 10:12 PM
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Azurisan21 said View Post
You're all putting together what I would consider under my own terms, 'Human/Intellectual Excellence', 'Human Assets', 'Human Integrity', etc.
Indeed, I think that is a good response to the current world situation.
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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  #28  
Old 23rd January 2017, 10:24 PM
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Azurisan21 Azurisan21 is offline
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Default Re: My turn to bite the bullet, blog happened

While the way you define the scope of diverse thinking styles is comprehensive, what I'd like to see (if you're interested to take mine on board) is how you give hierarchy to it. That is, what are the requisite thinking styles necessary for other thinking styles.

For example, to me, creative thinking is a bit arbitrary when taken and applied BEFORE critical research. For creative thinking to be justified and defensibly argued, critical research must be undertaken, involving extensive comparative studies to establish and benchmark what is 'creative'. Well, this may not be universally and interdisciplinarily applicable - just a saying from my viewpoint based on my own professional career.

Also, would you categorise emotional and rational thinking styles as equally dichotomous, important, etc. Would you say that reflective thinking is possible, where one can self-analyse their emotions and rationalise why their emotions take shape in certain and unusual cases? I strongly think that such reflective thinking in terms of one's emotions is really crucial.

Same thing... can we think in terms of subjectivity, and make subjective issues objective? That, I'd also consider, is thinking. I'm most particularly interested in subjective thinking, which means rationalising and making objective the most subjective issues and tackling subjectivity, whether in design, in creativity, in philosophy, in politics, in justice, etc.
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  #29  
Old 23rd January 2017, 11:09 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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For creative thinking to be justified and defensibly argued, critical research must be undertaken, involving extensive comparative studies to establish and benchmark what is 'creative'.
I'm not sure that the product of that could truly be called 'creative' - to me that would be more like a craft than unfettered creativity.

Surely the most creative phenomena are those which just go their own way with complete disregard for anything previous.

Quote:
Also, would you categorise emotional and rational thinking styles as equally dichotomous, important, etc.

Insofar as we know, only humans have rational thinking, and their thinking is always coloured by their emotions, so I don't think it's a dichotomy here, rather a union where emotion can fuel reason and vice-versa.


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Would you say that reflective thinking is possible, where one can self-analyse their emotions and rationalise why their emotions take shape in certain and unusual cases?
Unquestionably.
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  #30  
Old 24th January 2017, 10:25 AM
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Azurisan21 said View Post
While the way you define the scope of diverse thinking styles is comprehensive, what I'd like to see (if you're interested to take mine on board) is how you give hierarchy to it. That is, what are the requisite thinking styles necessary for other thinking styles.
You can create a hierarchy if you find it useful. Discard it or make a new one when it is not. In general that will constrain your use of the techniques and the way you perceive them and learn them. The utility of such constraints may vary depending on your initial mind state, how you learn, and how far your learning and usage has taken you.

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For example, to me, creative thinking is a bit arbitrary when taken and applied BEFORE critical research.
Much hinges on what you mean by "creative".
Before doing any critical thinking application you have to deal with your perceptions of what is in front of you. Your options are to take what you perceive as is, the instant interpretations your mind automatically derives without thought, and go to with the critical tools. Alternatively you can seek to play with your perceptions to broaden them and discover if there is a different, more satisfactory set of interpretations and view points. Seeking the alternate views will often make initial impressions irrelevant and the critical analysis spent on them would be a wasted effort.
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For creative thinking to be justified and defensibly argued, critical research must be undertaken, involving extensive comparative studies to establish and benchmark what is 'creative'.
I disagree. That would just be justifying a definition rather than doing something useful.

Quote:
Also, would you categorise emotional and rational thinking styles as equally dichotomous, important, etc.
The six thinking hat technique has the red hat for "reporting emotions, intuitions and values". Such things are vitally important to acknowledge and understand. Your emotions can never be justified, only observed and understood. Their impact on perception is primary so thinking work to allow you to work emotively is necessary for the early elements of any thinking process. It is also important to have the ability to recognise emotional influences on the more rational work you do later and to avoid disguising emotions as logic.

Quote:
Would you say that reflective thinking is possible, where one can self-analyse their emotions and rationalise why their emotions take shape in certain and unusual cases? I strongly think that such reflective thinking in terms of one's emotions is really crucial.
The whole field of "lateral thinking" is predicated on this. Unlike psychotherapy where an external person helps to uncover hidden mental / emotional states, thinking can only work with the states that you can observe in your self and provide techniques to help shift them around.

If you think about it even making a decision is an emotional act. You choose an answer that feels right. Hopefully you have built your understanding of the factors surrounding the decision so that what feels right concords with reality as closely as possible.

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Same thing... can we think in terms of subjectivity, and make subjective issues objective? That, I'd also consider, is thinking. I'm most particularly interested in subjective thinking, which means rationalising and making objective the most subjective issues and tackling subjectivity, whether in design, in creativity, in philosophy, in politics, in justice, etc.
I think this is more a discussion of semantics. It is more useful to talk about senses, perceptions and mental states. Your perceptions are what you get when your current mental state works on your inputs, commonly your sensory input but also your thoughts arising from previous mental states. Its cybernetic in nature.

A useful thing is to be aware of your minds pattern seeking mechanisms and how to work with them. Consider the following experiment that will test your pattern seeking system:

Repeat in your mind the word "folk".
Folk.
Folk.
Folk.

Repeat in your mind the word "spoke".
Spoke.
Spoke.
Spoke.

Repeat in your mind the word "smoke".
Smoke.
Smoke.
Smoke.

Answer this, what do you call the white of an egg?





The answer is down here.






Most people will follow the rhyme of the words given in order to arrive at the word "yolk". They don't consciously think about it they just do it automatically.

The yolk of an egg is, of course the yellow part in the middle.

The question itself is ignored as lower perceptual priority, the key word egg is linked to a part of an egg that connects with the pattern established before hand.

The question however was to name the white part of an egg. That is named the "albumen", which does not rhyme. That is a way in which pattern matching can lead you to incorrect conclusions that just feel right.
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-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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