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  #1  
Old 8th February 2018, 10:58 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Shoot to kill

Justice in the US apparently, I shall put this here;


http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...3028e361f8ae82


Someone is going down for this, probably all the way up to the DA;


Quote:
“I said, ‘Don’t ram him, shoot him.’ F**k that s**t. Ain’t gonna tear up my cars,” he says on the video.


“If they don’t think I’ll give the damn order to kill that motherf***er, they’re full of s**t. Take him out.”



Mr Shoupe turned up on the scene after the shooting, and seemed disappointed to have missed the action.


“I love this s**t. God I tell you what, I thrive on it,” he said.
All recorded on bodycam, and what did the state DA say?


Quote:
Tennessee district attorney Bryant Dunaway has ruled that the shooting was justified and said in a statement after the incident that Mr Dial was “a dangerous and unstable subject”.
Quote:
“Why didn’t he stop? He was scared. I know him enough to know that,” she said.
Of course he's scared, he's probably had dealings with these guys before and knows exactly what they are like, he was scared they were going to kill him, they have probably killed before with no more justification. If the punishment for a minor traffic offense is death, risking death to try and escape, or carrying a gun to defend yourself almost becomes a no brainer. But in this case he had no gun so running was his only option. This behaviour is almost guaranteed to result in a run and/or shootout with every real criminal they try and catch.
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  #2  
Old 10th February 2018, 01:59 PM
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SEG SEG is online now
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Default Re: Shoot to kill

Quote:
stevebrooks said View Post
Justice in the US apparently, I shall put this here;


http://www.news.com.au/world/north-a...3028e361f8ae82


Someone is going down for this, probably all the way up to the DA;



All recorded on bodycam, and what did the state DA say?




Of course he's scared, he's probably had dealings with these guys before and knows exactly what they are like, he was scared they were going to kill him, they have probably killed before with no more justification. If the punishment for a minor traffic offense is death, risking death to try and escape, or carrying a gun to defend yourself almost becomes a no brainer. But in this case he had no gun so running was his only option. This behaviour is almost guaranteed to result in a run and/or shootout with every real criminal they try and catch.
The police actions were reasonable once you scratch a little further. The choice of words by the sheriff are harsh, but emotions would have been running high at the time.

See link:

Quote:
During the 17-mile chase, Dial rammed his pickup into several law enforcement vehicles, drove into oncoming traffic and ran red lights, according to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.

Then the tires on Dial’s trailer flattened, police said, tossing some of the items Dial was hauling off the trailer and into the median of the highway.
He may have been unarmed and driving slower than regular chases, but he was driving erratically including running red lights. Police had to take action to immobilise immediately. It was sheer luck that he didn't kill innocent people driving in the opposite direction or police officers in pursuit that he rammed.

Quote:
After the shooting occurred last April, Dial’s wife said her husband had been going to a flea market that day, WKRN reports. She added that she wasn’t sure why Dial had run from authorities — but said the incident didn’t need to end in a shooting death.

“Why fire shots? Why shoot?” Dial’s wife, Robyn, said after her husband’s death, WKRN reports. “Don’t they have those things they throw down, they have nails in to pop your tires? Why would they have to shoot him?”
I'm sure that if they had access to road spikes, that they would have used them. Gunfire would be the last resort.

Quote:
Deputies in DeKalb County, where the chase began before it entered White County, said it was “more like a funeral procession” than a high-speed pursuit, with speeds never exceeding 50 miles per hours, the Guardian reports.

Three officers were hurt in the incident, but their injuries weren’t life threatening, investigators said.


A Tennessee Bureau of Investigation inquiry into Dial’s death found that the officers who fired at Dial were justified. The report said Dial “was a dangerous and unstable subject who posed a serious and immediate risk of serious bodily injury or death to both law enforcement officers as well as other citizens in the immediate area,” the Cookville Herald-Citizen reports.
Quote:
A toxicology report found methamphetamine, amphetamine and cannabis in Dial’s system when he died, according to the newspaper.
The cops would have been informed of any drug offenses via radio, which escalates the situation

Quote:
In August, when a local district attorney released video and audio files related to the shooting, Shoupe was defiant in an interview with a local newspaper.

“I hate that this happened, but we are not going to tolerate people coming into this county and running over our citizens and our officers, and we will deal with them severely,” Shoupe
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Old 11th February 2018, 10:25 AM
Wrenn Wrenn is offline
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Default Re: Shoot to kill

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SEG said View Post
He may have been unarmed and driving slower than regular chases, but he was driving erratically including running red lights. Police had to take action to immobilise immediately. It was sheer luck that he didn't kill innocent people driving in the opposite direction or police officers in pursuit that he rammed.
No the police did not have to take action. They could have identified the driver, which they did before the chase started, then called off the chase. More and more US states are adopting this policy because police car chases kill people and bystanders regularly. Unless the offence is really bad there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that police chases are justified.

This article mentions research that says when a chase is called off drivers return to normal driving behavior within a few minutes, and also discusses about other reasons that we might want to phase out police chases:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...away-15532838/
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Old 11th February 2018, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Shoot to kill

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Wrenn said View Post
No the police did not have to take action. They could have identified the driver, which they did before the chase started, then called off the chase. More and more US states are adopting this policy because police car chases kill people and bystanders regularly. Unless the offence is really bad there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that police chases are justified.

This article mentions research that says when a chase is called off drivers return to normal driving behavior within a few minutes, and also discusses about other reasons that we might want to phase out police chases:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...away-15532838/
It depends Wrenn. We aren't as bad as the US police in terms of public safety. This is how police pursuits work in NSW

Quote:
Mr Hilder, who also sits on a pursuit management committee, said there were about 2000 police pursuits in NSW every year, with most of them lasting less than two minutes.

Every pursuit is reviewed by the committee each month, he said.

"Once a month, we review every pursuit within that month to make sure that from an independent perspective we're satisfied that the police are reporting the pursuits and they are complying with the guidelines.

"We're very proactive from the police and the police association in managing the pursuits," he said.

Mr Hilder said putting an end to police chases might only embolden some drivers to think they can travel at high speeds with impunity.

"That's the difficulty - if we say there's going to be no police pursuits then everybody knows that I can drive as fast as I want and you get that small section of the community say they know they are not going to chase me. Well, it's open slather, let's just whizz around the streets as fast as we can."

Police - unlike such drivers - are trained and equipped to travel at such high speeds, he said.
In the case that was cited earlier, the driver was reported going through red lights etc and was affected by drugs. This wasn't one to be called off and pursued later on via summons.

"Unless the offence is really bad there doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest that police chases are justified."

Yes, I agree 100%.

Last edited by SEG; 11th February 2018 at 04:14 PM.
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