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Conspiracy theories Got something to say about the Illuminati/One World Govt, chemtrails or faked moon landings? Find these, and more, here.

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  #61  
Old 2nd September 2016, 08:41 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

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tmorg said View Post
I can't really be fucked explaining myself further but I kind of want to. Debunk this, Spearthrower (or anyone else). The idea that morons could hijack jetliners with box cutters and skilfully fly them into the World Trade Centre skyscrapers and Pentagon without being intercepted by the US military! This is stretching my credulity. The inside job explanation is also logistically more plausible according to my common sense interpretation of the difficulty to coordinate and implement an international terrorist operation of such ambition! What do you reckon? (My position on the 9/11 inside job conspiracy theory is neutral.)
Why do you call them morons?
Men in a functioning group armed with knives can inflict a lot of damage and inflict fear to gain control.
US airforce was not expecting or ready to shoot down airlines with its own citizens on board
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  #62  
Old 2nd September 2016, 09:57 AM
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pipbarber pipbarber is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

No, they werent morons, certainly not uneducated anyway.

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The 9/11 pilots, as well as the secondary planners identified by the 9/11 commission, all attended Western universities, a prestigious and elite endeavor for anyone from the Middle East. Indeed, the lead 9/11 pilot, Mohamed Atta, had a degree from a German university in, of all things, urban preservation, while the operational planner of 9/11, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, studied engineering in North Carolina. We also found that two-thirds of the 25 hijackers and planners involved in 9/11 had attended college. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/14/op...myth.html?_r=0
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  #63  
Old 2nd September 2016, 11:17 AM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

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wadaye said View Post
Why do you call them morons?
Men in a functioning group armed with knives can inflict a lot of damage and inflict fear to gain control.
US airforce was not expecting or ready to shoot down airlines with its own citizens on board
When I originally I thought it was used more as a pejorative than a descriptive, now I am not so sure. Seemingly intelligent and thoughtful men have committed similar acts in the past, however attributing intelligence and skilled planning to the perpetrators would work against conspiracy theory argument that such a complex plan wasn't possible because the proposed perpetrators didn't have the skills or the intelligence to carry it through.

This is where conspiracy theories lead us, down the path of apologetics, much like religion we must interpret the events and people to best fit with our preconceived ideas.
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  #64  
Old 3rd September 2016, 12:25 PM
tmorg tmorg is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

Not able or willing to answer every question or query it is too much work. I did read the posts and excellent points made so I appreciate that and I mean it. I feel far more grounded, no pun intended, discussing this with rational minds. I do not want to get into in depth discussions about 9/11 because I do not have my facts straight.

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stevebrooks said
Yes I have flown a flight simulator, and what you also have to understand is that the hijackers were not learning to land or take off, they had no intention of doing either of those. Learning to land and take off is the difficult part, they were learning how to keep them in the air and navigate.
I would like to make two points. Firstly, I question if the skillset of flying a light aircraft is directly transferrable to a jetliner. Secondly, they flew and navigated jetliners into skyscrapers. That requires skill beyond keeping the aircraft in straight and level flight.

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Spearthrower said View Post
I want to challenge that Tmorg. You are not in the neutral position, I am in the neutral position when it comes to conspiracy theories - I await evidence, but until the alleged hypothetical links between 2 phenomena is evidenced, then I remain firmly within the null hypothesis. Personally, from what I've read here, it looks like you want to believe in conspiracy theories, but just can't quite bring yourself to when you know there's ample compelling logical and evidential reasons not to do so.
I also want evidence, Spearthrower, hard evidence. Because I do not have it I refuse to be a conspiracy theorist. Your final sentence is almost a bullseye except that I do not want to believe conspiracy theories. I have minimal interest in aliens, spirituality, metaphysics or the paranormal. My interests are the objective universe understood in the context of mathematics and the subjective universe understood in the context of bilateral human relationships. The only conscious reason I investigate the global conspiracy theory is because I cannot dismiss it yet. Honestly it is fucking my life up because I want to be scientist.

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wadaye said View Post
Why do you call them morons?
I already explained that but the New York Times opinion piece posted by pipbarber above describes them otherwise. I reiterate that my perception of the hijackers I got from the book Alice in Wonderland and the World Trade Centre Disaster [2002] by David Icke. Please see my recent post above.

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Loki said
What would you do tmorg? Would you shoot down a plane full of innocent civilians on suspicion of flying Islamistically?
Thanks for clarifying. I understand you. My answer to the question, which is not answering the question, is that I would have the jets scrambled.
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Last edited by tmorg; 3rd September 2016 at 12:32 PM. Reason: typo and minor alteration.
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  #65  
Old 3rd September 2016, 01:09 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

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tmorg said View Post
I would like to make two points. Firstly, I question if the skillset of flying a light aircraft is directly transferrable to a jetliner. Secondly, they flew and navigated jetliners into skyscrapers. That requires skill beyond keeping the aircraft in straight and level flight.
Are you just trying to prove my point that they weren't morons? If so thank you.

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Thanks for clarifying. I understand you. My answer to the question, which is not answering the question, is that I would have the jets scrambled.
They were.

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Standing orders on September 11 dictated that, upon receiving a request for assistance from the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) would normally order escort aircraft to approach and follow an aircraft that was confirmed to be hijacked in order to assure positive flight following, report unusual observances, and aid search and rescue in the event of an emergency.[1] The 9/11 Commission determined that on the morning of September 11, the FAA did not adequately notify NORAD of the hijackings of Flights 11, 77, 93, or 175 in time for escort aircraft to reach the hijacked flights.[2] Notification of the hijacking of Flight 11 prompted the scrambling of two fighter jets from Otis Air National Guard Base, but they were not in the air until after Flight 11 had hit the North Tower. An erroneous FAA report of a hijacked plane heading towards Washington ("phantom Flight 11") prompted the scrambling of three more fighters from the 1st Fighter Wing at Langley Air Force Base, which due to "poor communications", ended up flying eastward, out to sea, instead of heading toward Washington, significantly delaying their arrival on the scene.[
It just wasn't done following good procedure. None of the scrambled jets reached the hijacked planes in time to shot them down, whether they would have shot them down or not is moot.

Normal procedure for a hijacking is for the hijackers to order the plane flown to a foreign country or airport where they can make demands, even if the intercepting jets reached the targets in time it's more than likely that by the time they realised this was a suicide mission and not a regular hijacking the jets would have been so close to the targets it would have been to late to shoot them down without risking massive loss of life on the ground, where over New York City do you shoot down a 747 to avoid ground based deaths?

However it's all immaterial, the jets were scrambled but due to confusion it was simply to late to do anything, arguing over it now is just conspiracy theory.
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Last edited by stevebrooks; 3rd September 2016 at 01:11 PM.
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  #66  
Old 3rd September 2016, 01:34 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

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tmorg said View Post
I would like to make two points. Firstly, I question if the skillset of flying a light aircraft is directly transferrable to a jetliner. Secondly, they flew and navigated jetliners into skyscrapers. That requires skill beyond keeping the aircraft in straight and level flight.
It is. Hitting a skyscraper is hardly difficult - it's like being able to hit a skyscraper with a car once you've passed your driving test. Can't do that? Can't pass the test.


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tmorg said View Post
I also want evidence, Spearthrower, hard evidence. Because I do not have it I refuse to be a conspiracy theorist. Your final sentence is almost a bullseye except that I do not want to believe conspiracy theories. I have minimal interest in aliens, spirituality, metaphysics or the paranormal. My interests are the objective universe understood in the context of mathematics and the subjective universe understood in the context of bilateral human relationships. The only conscious reason I investigate the global conspiracy theory is because I cannot dismiss it yet. Honestly it is fucking my life up because I want to be scientist.
Honestly tmorg - I could argue in such a way for qualities like aliens, spirituality and the paranormal that you would not be able to dismiss in exactly the same way you can't dismiss these global conspiracy theories. Essentially, they're like Barnum statements - they sound compelling, but they're crafted to and have no weight to them.


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tmorg said View Post
Thanks for clarifying. I understand you. My answer to the question, which is not answering the question, is that I would have the jets scrambled.
The first time, it was too late. The second, who really could have imagined?
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  #67  
Old 6th September 2016, 01:12 PM
tmorg tmorg is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

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Spearthrower said View Post
Honestly tmorg - I could argue in such a way for qualities like aliens, spirituality and the paranormal that you would not be able to dismiss in exactly the same way you can't dismiss these global conspiracy theories. Essentially, they're like Barnum statements - they sound compelling, but they're crafted to and have no weight to them.
I agree with you. Now what?
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  #68  
Old 7th September 2016, 12:09 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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tmorg said View Post
I agree with you. Now what?
Now, first, last and always: evidence.
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Old 8th September 2016, 01:35 PM
tmorg
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  #69  
Old 8th September 2016, 11:14 PM
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Strato Strato is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

Hi tmorg,
Please don't take offense, but have you considered psychiatric assessment? You could self diagnose if you really cared to find the information. The DSMV. Perhaps you have Asperger's and/or OCD. And yet there is such a thing as doing too much introspection.

If you are struggling not to capitulate to that which you know to be nonsense, memes vying to ride in your brain, as they are in silly deluded zealots hungry for disciples and co-believers, and you are equipped with a clear diagnosis, you could rationalise your way to clear thinking and reality, merely saying there goes my Asperger's or schizophrenia or narcissism again. That's all this is, but that is my issue here, my mental health.

I don't know what your condition is, that obviously ridiculous conspiracy theories are so alluring to you, as you claim. Something is going on you would do well to be informed of, for your empowerment and self determinism.

How is your social life? Are you single? This sounds like Dear Dorothy.:
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  #70  
Old 9th September 2016, 06:01 AM
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stylofone stylofone is offline
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Default Re: I withdraw my comments withrawing my comments

Strato makes a good point, and it's good to look after your mental health just as it is your physical health.

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Strato said View Post
Hi tmorg,
Please don't take offense, but have you considered psychiatric assessment? You could self diagnose if you really cared to find the information. The DSMV. Perhaps you have Asperger's and/or OCD. And yet there is such a thing as doing too much introspection.

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