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  #61  
Old 23rd August 2016, 01:21 PM
surreptitious57 surreptitious57 is offline
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Default Re: Consciousness

It can be problematic in trying to objectively compare intelligence within the animal kingdom because of the scale
and variety of environments that references. But I think that the ability to adapt can be a reliable metric. Species
that survive and pass on their traits through their genes are more intelligent than ones that do not pass them on
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  #62  
Old 23rd August 2016, 01:36 PM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: Consciousness

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surreptitious57 said View Post
It can be problematic in trying to objectively compare intelligence within the animal kingdom because of the scale
and variety of environments that references. But I think that the ability to adapt can be a reliable metric. Species
that survive and pass on their traits through their genes are more intelligent than ones that do not pass them on
In that case, only intelligent species would exist. Replication was the first trick "invented" by life, going way back to the RNA/ribozyme epoch. Intelligence [real-time response to environmental cues] is more efficient than waiting generations for selection to drive an adaptive gene product to high frequency, but comes at a cost. The time and resources needed to build a complex neural net and good senses.

Mere speed of replication is not the magic bullet either, because even in the RNA world, different temperatures, salinities, pressures, pH, humidity, etc, etc, will impact on enzymes and reaction rates, so different mutations of RNA molecules will replicate better in certain conditions. This includes stability under heat stress. This caused the eventual evolution of proteins [called heat shock proteins] which chaperoned other proteins to avoid heat and other environmental stress.
DNA was probably adopted in bulk because as it is a more stable molecule, it naturally filled the niche of information carrier, and particularly, as a genetic "archive".
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Last edited by Darwinsbulldog; 23rd August 2016 at 01:49 PM.
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  #63  
Old 23rd August 2016, 01:43 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Default Re: Consciousness

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surreptitious57 said View Post
It can be problematic in trying to objectively compare intelligence within the animal kingdom because of the scale
and variety of environments that references. But I think that the ability to adapt can be a reliable metric. Species
that survive and pass on their traits through their genes are more intelligent than ones that do not pass them on

This is about as far from being true as is possible. I'm quite surprised that after years and years of doing this, you actually think that 'genetic intelligence' is some kind of essential trait for successful evolution. No, the ability and efficacy of processing nutrients is a far more defining trait.

Last edited by Spearthrower; 23rd August 2016 at 01:49 PM.
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  #64  
Old 25th August 2016, 08:54 PM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Consciousness

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surreptitious57 said View Post
....Species
that survive and pass on their traits through their genes are more intelligent than ones that do not pass them on
You mean more fit i think, in the sense that species which for some reason stop passing on their genes by definition go extinct.
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  #65  
Old 25th August 2016, 09:56 PM
Spearthrower Spearthrower is offline
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Spearthrower said View Post
This is about as far from being true as is possible. I'm quite surprised that after years and years of doing this, you actually think that 'genetic intelligence' is some kind of essential trait for successful evolution. No, the ability and efficacy of processing nutrients is a far more defining trait.

Dear Surreptitious57

I am going to call you out.

I am not doing so because of animosity, but because of a long pattern of contradiction.

You say you value all the ideals of rational enlightenment, like keeping an open mind, learning from others, improving your ideas.

However, when you make a statement like the above and someone corrects you, there's no reply - no suggestion that you have changed your mind, and no sense you want to understand. Just silence.

It's not like it's just happened once, but dozens of times.

Another example from this week is the claim that language is not descriptive but prescriptive. This is clearly false - it's both. But from your non-response, I can only assume you will repeat this again in future.

My question then becomes why you don't reply to these posts which contradict something you claim to be true? I see you write very well of yourself in terms of your intentions, but if you will excuse me saying, I don't see those intentions manifesting.

Perhaps I am mistaken and you change your mind and just don't acknowledge it, but it would be nice if you did so.
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