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Old 19th May 2017, 12:44 AM
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DanDare DanDare is offline
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Default Once more - RI in schools

I want to lay this out fairly clearly.

Schools teach the basics that allow kids to be citizens with essential skills.
Public schools accept kids of all backgrounds and should not foster an environment where special interest groups can "get at" the kids.
Religious instruction is not a necessary function of public schools and the organisations that provide it have an expressed interest in getting at kids they would not otherwise have access to.
RI classes have specifically set out to get kids to evangelise kids who are not going to RI.
Many of the evangelist kids have become that way under the radar of their parents, who do not know what goes on in RI.

Now read this: Can kids tell other kids about Jesus at school?
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:32 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

Quote:
DanDare said View Post
I want to lay this out fairly clearly.

Schools teach the basics that allow kids to be citizens with essential skills.
Public schools accept kids of all backgrounds and should not foster an environment where special interest groups can "get at" the kids.
Religious instruction is not a necessary function of public schools and the organisations that provide it have an expressed interest in getting at kids they would not otherwise have access to.
RI classes have specifically set out to get kids to evangelise kids who are not going to RI.
Many of the evangelist kids have become that way under the radar of their parents, who do not know what goes on in RI.

Now read this: Can kids tell other kids about Jesus at school?

I had a look, maybe I would have found it serious if his other posts hadn't been so laughable, I quote;


Quote:
We need to be clear about this: the fact that the resurrection of Jesus actually, literally happened in the Middle East about 2000 years ago, is vital if Christianity is to be taken seriously. Christianity may or may not have a set of moral principles that make living in society more pleasant- but if the Bible is taken seriously, the moral principles are not at the centre of the Christian faith. Christianity stands or falls on a set of events said to have occurred at a specific time, in a specific place.

Quote:
I am fully persuaded, by this evidence, that Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead in the 1st century;

https://lawandreligionaustralia.blog...tion-of-jesus/


He links to another blog, also his own, to prove the point;


Quote:
How does that relate to “Law and Religion”? Because our legal system has at its heart the law of evidence which assists judges to work out “what happened back then?” I have written a paper which analyses the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus using the techniques used by courts to assess the validity of testimony in court cases today in Australia. I encourage you to download and have a read, or pass it on to others.


I am fully persuaded, by this evidence, that Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead in the 1st century; and that fact was the turning point of history. If you haven’t made up your mind about this yet, or even if you decided long ago without really looking into it as an adult, I invite you to read and consider carefully.

https://lawandreligionaustralia.blog...a-legal-angle/


He is convinced, because legal opinion in courts in Australia would deem the evidence sufficient to support the conclusion, that a man did indeed rise from the dead. To him this is irrefutable evidence that jesus rose from the dead, not just he recently deceased AKA heart attack and resuscitation but dead for three days dead, the smelly dead type of dead. Not only that, he considers this powerful enough evidence to convince unbelievers;


Quote:
I trust and pray that those who see Christianity as a mere “fable” or fiction might find here some reasons to reconsider the powerful evidence.

While he may be;


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I am an evangelical Christian, an Associate Professor in law, a father and a grandfather. I have qualifications in both law and theology and teach “Law and Religion” as an elective to later year law students.

I can't possibly consider his legal opinion unbiased or even sane based on his blog which seems to be one giant self-referential circle jerk about jesus and the resurrection. Law, while important to society, cannot possibly deal with reality in the same way it deals with social issues, making a legal decision to change the way the universe works isn't a valid way to apply law. People don't rise from the dead because a court of law says they did. I can't see this being taken seriously by anyone!
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

Yes, nothing new, laughable as always...without the ages old circular jerk, what does the theist have?

They can cite letters of education to fool the uninitiated, but without a good argument they have naught but dogma, which a reasonable person should find embarrassing.
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Old 19th May 2017, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

He wouldn't last two seconds in the state school system.
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The Nizkor Project- Logical Fallacies

Atheist: n; A person to be pitied in that he is unable to believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:27 PM
stevebrooks stevebrooks is offline
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

Quote:
DanDare said View Post
I want to lay this out fairly clearly.

Schools teach the basics that allow kids to be citizens with essential skills.
Public schools accept kids of all backgrounds and should not foster an environment where special interest groups can "get at" the kids.
Religious instruction is not a necessary function of public schools and the organisations that provide it have an expressed interest in getting at kids they would not otherwise have access to.
RI classes have specifically set out to get kids to evangelise kids who are not going to RI.
Many of the evangelist kids have become that way under the radar of their parents, who do not know what goes on in RI.

Now read this: Can kids tell other kids about Jesus at school?

Now just to clarify on what the legal numpty said in his claim that no-one can tell children they can't evangelise to other children at school, this may even be strictly legally correct, except for one exception that I will get to later. If we are talking strictly legal it's all wound up in the one issue. That is, we don't strictly apply adult laws to children because they aren't developed enough to understand the legal and social ramification of what our laws mean, we therefore have rules that we apply to children that wouldn't necessarily be legally applicable to adults and in fact may, as he says, be illegal.


It boils down to this, if we apply the law strictly, then the one person who can tell the evangelising child to shut the fuck up is the child being evangelised to, if they still continue it becomes harassment and there follows restraining orders and all that sort of unpleasantness. So while the legal numpty may be strictly correct that the education dept. can't ban children evangelising to other children in school, I don't know for sure I am not a lawyer, it's done because children are not socially developed enough to understand the rules that this guy is saying they are allowed to follow.


It's done not just to protect the child being evangelised to, but to protect the children who are being told they can't evangelise.
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Old 19th May 2017, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

Good luck to the kid who evangelizes Spawn.

Spawn is vaccinated though, it'll be the real littlies they are aiming at.
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Old 19th May 2017, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

Creepy as hell.
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Old 20th May 2017, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: Once more - RI in schools

And in the other direction a submission by FIRIS to the Parliamentary Inquiry into the status of the human right to freedom of religion or belief in relation to religious instruction in public schools. (they have a different take on free speech by children).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B93...1QdS1pQjQ/view

Quote:
The first section of this submission considers the rights of parents and caregivers to educate their children in accordance with their religion or belief. The assertion that parents/caregivers have the right to have their children educated in their religious persuasion within New South Wales Government schools is challenged. This challenge is made in the context of the international precedent established by the Canadian province of Québec’s decision to remove denominational religious instruction from public schools and to implement a mandatory neutral and objective Ethics and Religious Culture program.
The second section considers the rights of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion within New South Wales Government schools.

Given the fundamental right of all to freedom of thought, and to participate freely in the cultural life of their communities, this submission also affirms the right of all, particularly the child, to philosophy and to philosophise. The United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) has identified the fundamental importance of the teaching and practice of philosophy in addressing world problems through dialogue, analysis and questioning of contemporary society, and fostering critical reflection and independent thinking.3 The creation within Australian schools of spaces where children can express their opinion democratically will foster an understanding that with freedom of expression comes a duty to argue rationally.4 This submission also supports UNESCO’s position that, based on research in the fields of developmental cognitive and social psychology, and in the language and education sciences, it is possible for children to engage in philosophy from a very young age, and that this is strongly desirable for educational, philosophical, and ethical reasons.5

Following consideration of the ways in which respect for human rights and opportunities to engage in ethical, creative and critical thinking are present in the general capabilities of the F-10 curriculum FIRIS recommends the inclusion of philosophy as a key learning area across all stages of the Australian Curriculum as a major component of a program, similar to Québec’s Philosophy and Religious Cultures program, mandatory for all schools. In doing so, Australia will fulfil its ethical obligations as outlined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to
Quote:
strive by teaching and education to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive measures, national and international, to secure their universal and effective recognition and observance [UDHR Preamble]
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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