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  #21  
Old 14th November 2017, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Womanliness

While a lot of the maintenance of "social reality" [social constructions] [eg digital sexes] is at odds with physical reality [biology], and therefore defiance of physical reality, is motivated by entrenching privilege for the benefit of the privileged, I also feel it is a basic human anxiety about uncertainty and lack of precision in the universe and life.

People somehow expect life should come with guarantees and warranties, and everything should be explainable. Instead, we have quantum mechanics, the heat death of the universe, and personal death is only a missed heartbeat or aneurysm away.

So people try to shoehorn stuff into nice neat little boxes, and invent little agencies, like creator-gods, which do double duty as sky-daddy/protectors as well as explanatory agents for the difficult to think about.

The cost is a lot of folks fall between the cracks. So things like human welfare, acceptance, participation, etc depends very much on how other people perceive you.

So these memes are not harmless, but can cause great hardship to folks deemed to be outside the box. In other words, to be more or less defined as not fully human, based on race, gender or other bigotry.
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  #22  
Old 15th November 2017, 05:49 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Quote:
So people try to shoehorn stuff into nice neat little boxes, and invent little agencies, like creator-gods, which do double duty as sky-daddy/protectors as well as explanatory agents for the difficult to think about.
Quote:
Matte Blanco saw in-depth analysis of the mind as falling into five broad strata: in which there is a particular combination of symmetrical and asymmetrical logic' appropriate to each one.[15] In what he terms the first stratum, experience is characterized by the conscious awareness of separate objects. At this level thinking is mostly delimited and asymmetrical — closest to "normal", everyday life, to what W. R. Bion termed the mind of the "work group"...anchored to a sophisticated and rational level of behaviour.[16][17] A second stratum can be defined by the appearance of a significant amount of symmetrization within otherwise asymmetrical thinking, so that for example a man in love will attribute to the beloved young woman...all the characteristics of the class of beloved woman, but (bi-logically) he will realize that his young woman also has limitations and defects.[18]

The next deeper, third stratum is one where different classes are identified (thus containing a fair amount of asymmetrical thinking) but in which...parts of a class are always taken as the whole class — symmetrization (plus a degree of timelessness).[19] The fourth stratum is defined by the fact that there is formation of wider classes which are also symmetrized, while asymmetry becomes less and less. Thus because "being a man" is a wider class than ones men, women and children, being a man is also equivalent to being a woman and a child. In this fourth and rather deep startum, a number of the features of the Freudian unconscious are also characteristic. There is an absence of contradiction, also an identity of psychical and external reality.[20] Finally, the deepest, fifth stratum is that in which processes of symmetrization tend towards the mathematical limit of indivisibility thinking, which requires asymmetrical relations, is greatly impaired and becomes the realm of psychotic functioning: without asymmetrical logic, play breaks down into delusion.[21][22]

Normal human development for Matte Blanco, involved gradual familiarity with all five strata, including the capacity both to differentiate and to move between them all; in abnormal states, this continuity of differentiation between the strata becomes fractured or confused.[23]

Thus, asymmetrical thoughts are said to be at the surface, while the symmetrical relations make up multiple lower strata that go deeper until an “invisible mode” or total symmetry is reached. In the deeper, completely unconscious levels, a statement such as “Jane is the mother of Jasmine” is equally valid as “Jasmine is the mother of Jane”. This statement reversal sounds preposterous to logical, asymmetrical, conscious thought, but the depth of the unconscious has its own rules. There, such a statement is true and incontestable. In this way, the principle of symmetry changes the asymmetrical to symmetrical or, put another way, the logical into the illogical.
Entirely asymmetrical thinking (everything in it's own seperate little box) is as wrong as 5th level thinking is basically psychotic and so also wrong. I'm not sure about putting men/women into separate boxes.....probably best to put us all in wet paper bags so people can break out and that's easy and ok; but it seems a little 5th level/psychotic to treat the sexes entirely as a homogeneous group. The maternal instinct is very special, for example, and ego supremacy competition is much more common and severe amongst males I think in general, for example....but not ALL the time and not EVERYBODY so yeah...wet paper bags.
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  #23  
Old 15th November 2017, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Quote:
Theorease said View Post
Quote:
So people try to shoehorn stuff into nice neat little boxes, and invent little agencies, like creator-gods, which do double duty as sky-daddy/protectors as well as explanatory agents for the difficult to think about.
Quote:
Matte Blanco saw in-depth analysis of the mind as falling into five broad strata: in which there is a particular combination of symmetrical and asymmetrical logic' appropriate to each one.[15] In what he terms the first stratum, experience is characterized by the conscious awareness of separate objects. At this level thinking is mostly delimited and asymmetrical — closest to "normal", everyday life, to what W. R. Bion termed the mind of the "work group"...anchored to a sophisticated and rational level of behaviour.[16][17] A second stratum can be defined by the appearance of a significant amount of symmetrization within otherwise asymmetrical thinking, so that for example a man in love will attribute to the beloved young woman...all the characteristics of the class of beloved woman, but (bi-logically) he will realize that his young woman also has limitations and defects.[18]

The next deeper, third stratum is one where different classes are identified (thus containing a fair amount of asymmetrical thinking) but in which...parts of a class are always taken as the whole class — symmetrization (plus a degree of timelessness).[19] The fourth stratum is defined by the fact that there is formation of wider classes which are also symmetrized, while asymmetry becomes less and less. Thus because "being a man" is a wider class than ones men, women and children, being a man is also equivalent to being a woman and a child. In this fourth and rather deep startum, a number of the features of the Freudian unconscious are also characteristic. There is an absence of contradiction, also an identity of psychical and external reality.[20] Finally, the deepest, fifth stratum is that in which processes of symmetrization tend towards the mathematical limit of indivisibility thinking, which requires asymmetrical relations, is greatly impaired and becomes the realm of psychotic functioning: without asymmetrical logic, play breaks down into delusion.[21][22]

Normal human development for Matte Blanco, involved gradual familiarity with all five strata, including the capacity both to differentiate and to move between them all; in abnormal states, this continuity of differentiation between the strata becomes fractured or confused.[23]

Thus, asymmetrical thoughts are said to be at the surface, while the symmetrical relations make up multiple lower strata that go deeper until an “invisible mode” or total symmetry is reached. In the deeper, completely unconscious levels, a statement such as “Jane is the mother of Jasmine” is equally valid as “Jasmine is the mother of Jane”. This statement reversal sounds preposterous to logical, asymmetrical, conscious thought, but the depth of the unconscious has its own rules. There, such a statement is true and incontestable. In this way, the principle of symmetry changes the asymmetrical to symmetrical or, put another way, the logical into the illogical.
Entirely asymmetrical thinking (everything in it's own seperate little box) is as wrong as 5th level thinking is basically psychotic and so also wrong. I'm not sure about putting men/women into separate boxes.....probably best to put us all in wet paper bags so people can break out and that's easy and ok; but it seems a little 5th level/psychotic to treat the sexes entirely as a homogeneous group. The maternal instinct is very special, for example, and ego supremacy competition is much more common and severe amongst males I think in general, for example....but not ALL the time and not EVERYBODY so yeah...wet paper bags.
I was curious -LINKY for the above quote's source
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  #24  
Old 15th November 2017, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Well the first one was DarwinsBulldog and the second one is from the Matte Blanco wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaci..._Blanco#Strata
I should have put links in I was being lazy uh uh


uh, hang on you linked the page...it's under the subheading Strata....is that what you meant? My mother told me about it TBH lol

Oh dear it's like I don't speak english sometimes or something...you weren't asking for anything innit.

Last edited by Theorease; 15th November 2017 at 07:51 AM.
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  #25  
Old 15th November 2017, 07:50 AM
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Default Re: Womanliness

Yes, I provided the link. Have an excellent day.
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