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  #11  
Old 22nd November 2016, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

I'm suspicious. Backtracking the alleged 'peer-review' leads to 'Aerospace Research Central', which is a new one on me.

I also found this while searching for the source of the paper.

http://motls.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/...e-of-hype.html
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  #12  
Old 1st December 2016, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive



Always a good place to look into such matters in the absence of peer-review is Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/briankob.../#5c8bf01c76e2

Quote:
While all of this is interesting and exciting, there are still reasons to be skeptical. As the authors point out, even this latest vacuum test doesnít eliminate all the sources of error. Things such as thermal expansion of the device could account for the results, for example. Now that the paper is officially out, other possible error sources are likely to be raised. Thereís also the fact that thereís no clear indication of how such a drive can work. While the lack of theoretical explanation isnít a deal breaker (if it works, it works), it remains a big puzzle to be solved. The fact remains that experiments that seem to violate fundamental physics are almost always wrong in the end.
Iíve been pretty critical of this experiment from the get go, and I remain highly skeptical. However, even as a skeptic I have to admit the work is valid research. This is how science is done if you want to get it right. Do experiments, submit them to peer review, get feedback, and reevaluate. For their next trick the researchers would like to try the experiment in space. I admit thatís an experiment Iíd like to see.
And alternatively someone suggesting that there may be a reaction with dark matter.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/startswi.../#486badeb1e53

Quote:
The one thing thatís forbidden is a reactionless drive: an action without a reaction. Thatís exactly what the EMdrive ó the ďimpossibleĒ space engine just verified by a NASA test ó claims to be. If it truly works as advertised, it violates the laws of physics. But thereís a possible loophole: perhaps there is a reaction, and we just donít detect it. Perhaps the reaction occurs, but itís occurring due to dark matter.
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  #13  
Old 1st December 2016, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

From the above link, here's the paper:

http://arc.aiaa.org/doi/10.2514/1.B36120

Not going to mean much to me, I'm afraid.
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  #14  
Old 1st December 2016, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

I seem to recall that during the development of the Saturn Five engine program, the engineers had a problem and just played with the orientation of the baffles or something until it worked. They had no idea how their fix worked. In other words, black-box science. Not ideal, but if it works it works. If the developers had said "fuck it, we don't know how it works, let's cancel this program and start again, there would have been no Saturn 5 engine.

The same goes for the EM drive, if they can get it to work, then it works. Frustrating not knowing mechanism, but that is how it goes sometimes. The real question is, does it work? It either does or it doesn't. That is what has to be discovered first. It could be a waste of money, or a blind alley, but in the absence of mechanism, serendipity can often work.

This is why I like engineers more than scientists sometimes, particularly theoretical ones, because they don't get hysterical when they can't find a mechanism. They just work the problem.

Biological evolution works like this too. There is no cognition, just a selection mechanism that selects working solutions from design space. This is why evolution can often find working solutions to very complex problems. The blind power of selection, when combined with cognitive investigations, such as in directed evolution experiments, is as powerful as t gets. Awesome.
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  #15  
Old 1st December 2016, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

This could ultimately reveal the answer to the "Ghost poo problem".

You know you did a poo, but there's nothing in the bowl. Violation of Newton's 17th law (Conservation of Angular Excreta).
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  #16  
Old 1st December 2016, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

There is no violation. The ghost poo is still there, in the outer casing.

You can tell because the power readings are all above the 9000 limit.
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  #17  
Old 2nd December 2016, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

Scott Manley's take on it...


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  #18  
Old 2nd December 2016, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

I also would like this to actually work, but I am a skeptic (proper skeptic not one of those ersatz climate change denier skeptics). It seems unlikely, but as long as all the proper scientific steps are taken, the proper tests and demonstrations are run and a working model is unveiled, well that will put SchrŲdinger's cat among Pavlov's dogs with some interesting results.

The thing is, it's essentially a simple device from what I can tell, and testing it is not going to cost a lot of money and time compared to other things we have tried that haven't worked, and even if it doesn't work, I suspect it's going to give us some very useful data to ponder over, maybe leading to unexpected revelations in physics. This is going to require some popcorn I dare say....and a comfy chair.
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  #19  
Old 3rd December 2016, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

Psychiatry has used psychiatric drugs to control delusions for many decades, on the basis that they work [in a vast majority of cases]. Only now is molecular psychiatry beginning to understand some of the mechanisms of how they work.
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  #20  
Old 29th January 2017, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Successful test of EM Drive

Not seen a lot on this lately so I thought I would have a look around the news sites. While this one does indicate some progress it's editorial standards do leave some concern.

In fact this is the first time I have hard a cone being described as cone-shaped;

Quote:
around inside a conical shaped cone
Oh well, editorial standards aside, here it is;

http://www.inquisitr.com/3839431/nas...space-station/
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