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#41
22nd July 2017, 08:36 AM
 MikeJay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,219
Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then

Quote:
 wadaye said Article in today's Daily Telegraph or whatever its called, that houses in South West Sydney have been increasing in value by $2000 per day for the past two years. That's all tax free. Where is all this money coming from? I suspect its from the quantitative easing, i.e. printing money. What's the best way to steal from people? Steal what they don't even have yet. Steal their future. Print money. Property sucks up the value of the printed money, and the wage earner becomes closer to a wage slave. Better still the property remains tax free protected as a holy shrine of capitalist democracy, and the workers still have to bear the burden of supporting the government through taxes on their meagre incomes. I always wondered why the currencies of developing nations constantly devalue compared to so called developed nations. Quantitative easing may be the answer, wherein those in power within and without of the countries have the capacity to rob without anybody being able to put their finger on the act of theft. No Wadeye, The increase comes from scarcity of supply vs demand. The fact that prices are going up is directly related to people earning enough and buying at those prices, a relatively minor percentage of buyers are foreign investors. Last edited by MikeJay; 22nd July 2017 at 08:38 AM. #42 22nd July 2017, 08:44 AM  MikeJay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,219 Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then Quote:  wadaye said That would require a public policy set up with at least a tken nod towards equity rather than profit as a perceived social good. I think there is no chance of that frankly Why do you think it is, or should be, the governments responsibility to make it easier for people to own a home? #43 22nd July 2017, 09:03 AM  wadaye AFA Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4,406 Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then Quote: MikeJay said Quote:  wadaye said Article in today's Daily Telegraph or whatever its called, that houses in South West Sydney have been increasing in value by$2000 per day for the past two years. That's all tax free. Where is all this money coming from? I suspect its from the quantitative easing, i.e. printing money. What's the best way to steal from people? Steal what they don't even have yet. Steal their future. Print money. Property sucks up the value of the printed money, and the wage earner becomes closer to a wage slave. Better still the property remains tax free protected as a holy shrine of capitalist democracy, and the workers still have to bear the burden of supporting the government through taxes on their meagre incomes. I always wondered why the currencies of developing nations constantly devalue compared to so called developed nations. Quantitative easing may be the answer, wherein those in power within and without of the countries have the capacity to rob without anybody being able to put their finger on the act of theft.
No Wadeye, The increase comes from scarcity of supply vs demand. The fact that prices are going up is directly related to people earning enough and buying at those prices, a relatively minor percentage of buyers are foreign investors.
No. The increase in money supply both nationally and internationally means the money has to go somewhere. It goes into land which is the real repository of wealth. That means as house prices double, real wages and ordinary business earnings are cut in half. This happens again and again. That is a form of future theft by those in control of where the new credit goes and who gets, and does not get access to it.

Additionally, the impacts of the frothing at the mouth negative gearing frenzy (I am talking about those participating in it not those criticising it) rise exponentially with the increase in house and land prices. Not only will the present and future taxing capacity of the Cth be severely curtailed, far more importantly it presents a fundamental violation of the social contract, a spit and slap in the face to taxpaying workers. This is because to those who have, more will be added in the form of generous largesse as tax concessions. In this way, an investor whose property is rising at say $2000 per day in Southwest Sydney can cry poor mouth and have their income tax liability washed away, and collect all the benefits of government designed for but denied to the working poor, such as Family Tax Benefit A, B, Child Care benefit and rebate, and etcetera. It is such a tax avoidance scam that it is as Kev Carmody said that those in power have no interest but for their progeny and their class. The system is so Orwellian (with many thanks to Orwell for the phrase), that one merely needs to claim to be a property owner to be granted a Tax Holiday, HECS and HELP repayment Holiday, and access to government largesse and grants such as the welfare payments described above. A truly morally inverted universe. __________________ "I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm proud of it, and you should be too". Richard Dawkins Last edited by wadaye; 22nd July 2017 at 09:52 AM. #44 22nd July 2017, 10:00 AM  MikeJay Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 1,219 Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then Quote:  wadaye said No. The increase in money supply both nationally and internationally means the money has to go somewhere. It goes into land which is the real repository of wealth. That means as house prices double, real wages and ordinary business earnings are cut in half. This happens again and again. That is a form of future theft by those in control of where the new credit goes and who gets, and does not get access to it. Additionally, the impacts of the frothing at the mouth negative gearing frenzy (I am talking about those participating in it not those criticising it) rise exponentially with the increase in house and land prices. Not only will the present and future taxing capacity of the Cth be severely curtailed, far more importantly it presents a fundamental violation of the social contract, a spit and slap in the face to taxpaying workers. This is because to those who have, more will be added in the form of generous largesse as tax concessions. In this way, an investor whose property is rising at say$2000 per day in Southwest Sydney can cry poor mouth and have their income tax liability washed away, and collect all the benefits of government designed for but denied to the working poor, such as Family Tax Benefit A, B, Child Care benefit and rebate, and etcetera. It is such a tax avoidance scam that it is as Kev Carmody said that those in power have no interest but for their progeny and their class. The system is so Orwellian (with many thanks to Orwell for the phrase), that one merely needs to claim to be a property owner to be granted a Tax Holiday, HECS and HELP repayment Holiday, and access to government largesse and grants such as the welfare payments described above. A truly morally inverted universe.
Before you go on, I'm with you on negative gearing ...... for the most part. Where we differ, I can accept it when a buyer needs to use it because the house they live in dropped in value and it effects the value they put in or need to replay.
#45
22nd July 2017, 11:01 AM
 Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 17,934
Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then

Why people can't parse the difference between the impact of negative gearing on a small investor and a massive one, I cannot understand. It is a bit like three entities. One person has nothing, the next person has \$50, and the third, a billion dollars.

All three need support in the event of illness, or eventual old age. The billionaire can afford self-funded retirement and does not need a government safety net. The pauper does need a fully-funded government support net. Those in between, so long as they are not over-taxed, can also fund their retirement, leaving more government funds for the safety net.

And that is the only problem with taxes and incentives. Governments tend to tax those least able to pay taxes. I would wager that most low or middle income earners don't have battalions of tax lawyers, accountants etc, nor the funds to influence elections.

More than once, parties have lost election based on a platform of increasing mining taxes, or carbon taxes and the like. The same goes for a platform negative gearing that proposes a more fair and equitable way of implementing negative gearing.

But no, all one hears is "keep negative gearing", or ban it.

One way ordinary folks can get into the property market is buying with family or best friends, in this way they can get off the rental treadmill and accumulate some capital in the way of a house or flat. it is the big speculators and developers that make the market so expensive to enter in the first place, so removing negative gearing from the big end of town, but retaining it for those who don't yet own their own home, but a share in a home, can eventually use the equity to get their own homes.

For those that have nothing, a larger grant for their deposit, but as far as I can tell, these incentives are actually shrinking.

I had some twenty years in welfare housing and I learned that if you make a welfare housing recipient a stakeholder, they ate far less likely to wreak their flat or house, thus reducing repair bills that the housing authority [and ultimately the taxpayer] has to pay.

So you get these people good jobs, and give them a leg-up with their deposits. [Unless they can't work of course, in which case everything is "gift" economy in that sector].
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#46
22nd July 2017, 01:31 PM
 The Irreverent Mr Black "Tiny be as tiny do" - Zappa Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Toontown Posts: 1,736
Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then

Quote:
 Darwinsbulldog said (snippo) I had some twenty years in welfare housing and I learned that if you make a welfare housing recipient a stakeholder, they ate far less likely to wreak their flat or house, thus reducing repair bills that the housing authority [and ultimately the taxpayer] has to pay. So you get these people good jobs, and give them a leg-up with their deposits. [Unless they can't work of course, in which case everything is "gift" economy in that sector].
It seems Vic Dept of Housing agrees, Pup!
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#47
22nd July 2017, 08:29 PM
 Darwinsbulldog AFA Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth Posts: 17,934
Re: Too stupid to have bought a house? Get a high paying job then

Quote:
 The Irreverent Mr Black said It seems Vic Dept of Housing agrees, Pup!
Great! About time. I am glad they started with indigenous folks, but there are a lot of non-Indigenous folks hurting also.
__________________
Just stick to the idea that science tests falsifyable hypotheses to destruction.

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