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  #1  
Old 29th November 2016, 03:47 PM
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Default Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Matt Slick takes this off topic from the start. Its infuriating.


Matt Dillahunty has begun a review of the debate which is so far interesting.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/atheist-debates-7330289

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Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.
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  #2  
Old 29th November 2016, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

I watched about half an hour or more of Dilahunty and noticed the contrast with Slick. Matt D got his points in early. I have watched a lot of Dilahunty vids so there were few surprises. Then I watched Matt Slick for over 15 minutes, but could not maintain interest, because he didn't get to the point. Call me biased, but Matt Slick seemed to be mostly about word salad with little substance.
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Not sure I can face the debate, but the answer's clearly 'yes'. Christianity is tribal and believes others are going to face eternal torture for not leaping hoops while in humanism there is no 'other'. Christianity requires you lend credence to anti-human positions, buy into antiquated magical guff, and to remain infantile outsourcing ethics to the supernatural - humanism requires no magic and supports the idea of being responsible for ones' own actions.

There's no comparison here at all. One is the collective shaved bumfluff of nasty little dingleberries vying for divine diktat to administer their squabbles, and the other is the hope that humanity can be more than children.
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Imo, Matt should should stop providing people like Slick with (pseudo)credibility, by engaging with them in debates.

People like Matt Slock don't care for either facts nor honest debates. All they care about is reaffirming their beliefs through whatever convoluted arguments they can think of.
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

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Spearthrower said View Post
Not sure I can face the debate, but the answer's clearly 'yes'. Christianity is tribal and believes others are going to face eternal torture for not leaping hoops while in humanism there is no 'other'. Christianity requires you lend credence to anti-human positions, buy into antiquated magical guff, and to remain infantile outsourcing ethics to the supernatural - humanism requires no magic and supports the idea of being responsible for ones' own actions.

There's no comparison here at all. One is the collective shaved bumfluff of nasty little dingleberries vying for divine diktat to administer their squabbles, and the other is the hope that humanity can be more than children.
Do watch. Matt S does not engage the topic and goes off an a straw man argument and argument from incredulity that is astonishing in its awfulness. The second vid has Matt D going over the lead up to the debate and its most enlightening.
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"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government".
-Thomas Jefferson

Burden of proof is the obligation on somebody presenting a claim to provide evidence to support its truth (a warrant). Once evidence has been presented, it is up to any opposing "side" to show the evidence presented is not adequate. If claims were accepted without warrants, then every claim could simultaneously be claimed to be true.

History isn't written by the victors. It's written by the people with the time machines.

Last edited by DanDare; 29th November 2016 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 29th November 2016, 08:52 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Quote:
DanDare said View Post
Quote:
Spearthrower said View Post
Not sure I can face the debate, but the answer's clearly 'yes'. Christianity is tribal and believes others are going to face eternal torture for not leaping hoops while in humanism there is no 'other'. Christianity requires you lend credence to anti-human positions, buy into antiquated magical guff, and to remain infantile outsourcing ethics to the supernatural - humanism requires no magic and supports the idea of being responsible for ones' own actions.

There's no comparison here at all. One is the collective shaved bumfluff of nasty little dingleberries vying for divine diktat to administer their squabbles, and the other is the hope that humanity can be more than children.
Do watch. Matt S does not engage the topic and goes off an a straw man argument and argument from incredulity that is astonishing in its awfulness. The second vid has Matt D going over the lead up to the debate and its most enlightening.
Nothing new there then.

How I became an atheist: listened to arguments in support of religion. Realised they were full of shit. Kept paying attention. Nothing changed.

I've been doing this for a long time, and frankly haven't come across a new or intellectually rigorous argument for religion in at least five years, probably longer. The best you get are people who only cannot be classified as lying purely because they genuinely believe the stupid bullshit they're peddling.
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Old 29th November 2016, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

I've been subject to this entire interaction since Slick's first call regarding TAG on TAE, and indeed I've interacted with Slick and kicked his arse on CARM chat.

Some of you will recall a debate I engaged in at RDF, not my best performance, but still. That debate was instituted after Chris Weaver, then a student of apologetics at university (he says philosophy, but he's a Kraigbot, really) was throwing his weight around at CARM, so I visited the chat to give him what for. I got dog-piled by Weaver, Slick and their sycophants in the chat, so I challenged Weaver to a debate.

I've watched the whole interaction with some interest as a result.

Slick, as with all presupps, can't defend any position except via asserting that nobody but a presupp can account for the laws of logic, the laws of the universe etc. Of course, the presupp can only account for them by fiat insofar as he can account for them at all - not that they require an accounting.

Slick is a perfect example of why reasonable people get frustrated at presuppositionalists,because trying to have a reasonable, reasoned discussion is like filling a string bag with custard.
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Old 29th November 2016, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Quote:
hackenslash said View Post
I've been subject to this entire interaction since Slick's first call regarding TAG on TAE, and indeed I've interacted with Slick and kicked his arse on CARM chat.

Some of you will recall a debate I engaged in at RDF, not my best performance, but still. That debate was instituted after Chris Weaver, then a student of apologetics at university (he says philosophy, but he's a Kraigbot, really) was throwing his weight around at CARM, so I visited the chat to give him what for. I got dog-piled by Weaver, Slick and their sycophants in the chat, so I challenged Weaver to a debate.

I've watched the whole interaction with some interest as a result.

Slick, as with all presupps, can't defend any position except via asserting that nobody but a presupp can account for the laws of logic, the laws of the universe etc. Of course, the presupp can only account for them by fiat insofar as he can account for them at all - not that they require an accounting.

Slick is a perfect example of why reasonable people get frustrated at presuppositionalists,because trying to have a reasonable, reasoned discussion is like filling a string bag with custard.
For clarification, you're talking about Chris Weaver, not the poster Weaver (atheist ex-military firefighter) yeah?
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  #9  
Old 30th November 2016, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Keerect. One of them's a cretinous christian apologist who likes to flim-flam his way through lots of technical language, while the other one's Weaver.

On the upside, I owe a fair bit of my intellectual development to that debate, because it taught me to be a bit more careful in ensuring that I unpacked terms completely, and taught me an appreciation for some of the finer points of logic.
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Old 30th November 2016, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Is Secular Humanism superior to Christianity? - Matt Dilahunty vs Matt Slick

Just wanted to clear that up, for the record. You know how apologists can be.
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