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  #11  
Old 20th July 2017, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

Seems that our timeline for the spread of our species out of Africa may need to be revised again. Many theists would look at this discovery and think that scientist don't have a clue what they are talking about. However, it is really science in practice; constantly reevaluating our position and changing our models of the world depending on the evidence.

Excitingly its puts the overlap time with the megafauna for a longer period, how does this effect the assumptions we have made of human induced extinction and climate induced extinction?
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  #12  
Old 20th July 2017, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

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WesternGeo said View Post
Seems that our timeline for the spread of our species out of Africa may need to be revised again. Many theists would look at this discovery and think that scientist don't have a clue what they are talking about. However, it is really science in practice; constantly reevaluating our position and changing our models of the world depending on the evidence.

Excitingly its puts the overlap time with the megafauna for a longer period, how does this effect the assumptions we have made of human induced extinction and climate induced extinction?
Indeed. Now I better actually read the paper and find out.......

Intuitively for now I would say both climate and human beans both played a role. In another paper on overfishing, the conclusion was that over-fishing caused surprisingly few extinctions, unless accompanied by other factors. And the decline of Cheetahs has been linked to a double whammy: competition from two successful social animals, humans and lions. Few species can survive multiple blows from several directions. Let's see if the evidence supports the principle in this case.......
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  #13  
Old 20th July 2017, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

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Anyway, the Earth is only 5005 years old, so the paper must be rubbish.
Not only that, but they survived the flood as well!!!
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Old 20th July 2017, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

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Not only that, but they survived the flood as well!!!
They had Kevin Costner there to him them out.
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  #15  
Old 21st July 2017, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

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The Irreverent Mr Black said View Post
One does what one can, Pup. The impossible takes a bit longer.
They might think they solved Zeno's Paradox at the end of the article linked but the frets on the strat only get closer together as you go higher, even to the sub-Planck length, never terminating.

String theory my dear Watson.

These findings of Dr Chris Clarkson and the University of Queensland Archaeology team are sensational.

It is rightful that the Mirrar people of Jabiluka have full rights over the ancestral bones, the artefacts and all the finds.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci...19-gxe3qy.html
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  #16  
Old 21st July 2017, 08:30 AM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

Controversy rears its pointy head.

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The big news of the day on Thursday was that Australia was first settled 65,000 years ago, as reported today in The New Daily and around the world. But that claim is already proving a matter of controversy.

Critics are suggesting that the ancient settlement wasn’t the beginning of continuous human settlement – but rather represented a first wave of humans that didn’t survive.

The lead archaeologist of this new discovery, Professor Chris Clarkson of the University of Queensland, told The New Daily that the naysayers are simply mouthing sour grapes.

***

So what’s the ruckus? Professor Alan Cooper of the University of Adelaide told New Scientist that he was perplexed by the discovery, because equally ancient artefacts haven’t been found elsewhere in Australia.

“We know these people were fast movers – they moved very quickly from Africa to Asia to Australia,” he said. “So if they did arrive in northern Australia 65,000 years ago, why did they then just sit down and wait 15,000 years before spreading to the rest of the country?”

One idea might be that they died out. Our emails to Professor Cooper weren’t answered; an automatic reply said he was abroad.
Not that I'm associating the idea with Prof Cooper, but the "advanced, earlier people" trope appears to stem from the idea that the current indigenous people are too (simple/lazy/primitive/stupid - pick a negative term) to have originated some of the more technically-advanced artefacts and constructions discovered.

Rather than do my own relatively-inexpert refutation of this canard, let me again recommend Bruce Pascoe's book, Dark Emu.

Quote:
Dark Emu puts forward an argument for a reconsideration of the hunter-gatherer tag for precolonial Aboriginal Australians. The evidence insists that Aboriginal people right across the continent were using domesticated plants, sowing, harvesting, irrigating and storing - behaviours inconsistent with the hunter-gatherer tag. Gerritsen and Gammage in their latest books support this premise but Pascoe takes this further and challenges the hunter-gatherer tag as a convenient lie. Almost all the evidence comes from the records and diaries of the Australian explorers, impeccable sources.


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  #17  
Old 21st July 2017, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

The notion of barbarism on the part of the indigenes rings thin when one considers the addiction of Britain of the day the slavery, genocide, convict slavery, colonial theft of the earth from the indigenous.
No culture was perfect but this finger pointing at Aborigines is just a legacy of genocide.
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  #18  
Old 21st July 2017, 10:08 AM
wadaye wadaye is offline
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

sorry double post
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  #19  
Old 21st July 2017, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

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The notion of barbarism on the part of the indigenes rings thin when one considers the addiction of Britain of the day the slavery, genocide, convict slavery, colonial theft of the earth from the indigenous.
No culture was perfect but this finger pointing at Aborigines is just a legacy of genocide.
As possible drivers for the "lazy, ignorant savages" lie, there's justifying the "nullius" rubbish, and the Good White Helper fib, where nice people, like that rich chap who manages money so badly he pays very little personal tax, yet wants all those feckless poor people on a cash-free card, get to take all that land that's going to waste, and mine it into a proper wasteland.

If you get to set the value of history and culture at zero, it almost looks like you're not ruining anything.
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  #20  
Old 21st July 2017, 10:56 AM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: Humans in Australia for 65,000-80,000 years

Strato wrote:-

Quote:
It is rightful that the Mirrar people of Jabiluka have full rights over the ancestral bones, the artefacts and all the finds.
Hmm, I agree with the sentiment, but not absolutely in practice. Science depends on access to the materials being studied. While I agree that the artefacts belong to the Mirrar people, the whole human race are stakeholders in what archaeology and palaeontology and the other sciences can tell us about our origins and evolution.

This scientific study and similar studies give scientific support to the indigenous beliefs concerning the great antiquity of aboriginal land use, thus making [I]Terra nullius[I] totally invalid on cultural, historical and scientific grounds, which reinforces the legal decision by the High Court to discard it.

Thus such studies not only benefit the whole human world, but particularly the indigenous peoples concerned.

While the genocide of indigenous peoples [world-wide as well as in Australia] and the theft of remains done under the aegis of colonial European scientists cannot be ignored or marginalised, and gives great weight to indigenous people's concerns over their own artefacts and remains, it would be a loss to science if the pendulum swung too far in terms of materials of world-class heritage value being made unavailable for scientific study.

While I don't think this is the case here, as cooperation between scientists and indigenous peoples seem to be perfectly satisfactory, I am concerned that "over-compensation" in terms of giving absolute rights, may be less than prudent as a general principle.

While few ethical and thinking people want science to return to the fascist practices of Nazi science or the pseudo-science of Lysenkoism, the fact remains that science absolutely requires data and access.
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