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  #11  
Old 24th February 2017, 12:30 PM
Athe1st Athe1st is offline
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

I'd possibly be interested Azu, have to set framing first, however.

Which god? Which sect?
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  #12  
Old 24th February 2017, 02:26 PM
Azurisan21 Azurisan21 is offline
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

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Athe1st said View Post
I'd possibly be interested Azu, have to set framing first, however.

Which god? Which sect?
Great!

Any god. Let's say god that isn't based on any religion - since I don't follow any religion. How about that? We can discuss frameworks in the meantime.
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  #13  
Old 24th February 2017, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

Can you explain what you mean by god in definite terms please?
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  #14  
Old 24th February 2017, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

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142857 said View Post
I completely get what you are saying and I agree 100% apart from one tiny thing:

Even as an almost lifelong atheist I would disagree that belief in God is based on absolutely nothing.

I know people who sincerely believe that they have met God. In their case their belief in God is based on first-hand experience (admittedly with no other evidence). Eyewitness testimony is classed as evidence. And those people have insisted that I should believe in God because they have met him and I should trust them on that.

There are also stories in old books. Now this is poor evidence as those books are known to contain factual errors and are internally inconsistent. But still, we should acknowledge the existence of that evidence and objectively grade its credibility rather than saying that it doesn't exist.
Fair comment. So almost nothing apart from appeals to anecdote.
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  #15  
Old 24th February 2017, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

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Sendraks said View Post
Fair comment. So almost nothing apart from appeals to anecdote.
Almost nothing apart from eyewitness testimony (notoriously unreliable, particularly when dealing with supernatural beings) and some historical documentation that, due to inaccuracies and inconsistencies, should be classed as unreliable.
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  #16  
Old 24th February 2017, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

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142857 said View Post
Almost nothing apart from eyewitness testimony (notoriously unreliable, particularly when dealing with supernatural beings)
Yes, I'd classify these as appeal to anecdote, nothing more.

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and some historical documentation that, due to inaccuracies and inconsistencies, should be classed as unreliable.
THe historical documentation is, again, simply anecdotes written down. They're unverifiable written claims based on what the writer claims to have seen or that someone who spoke to the writer claims to have seen.
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  #17  
Old 24th February 2017, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

I can win that debate from the point of view of the challenger:

"The proof of God's nonexistence is secured by the absence of evidence for his existence."

Next!
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  #18  
Old 24th February 2017, 11:16 PM
Athe1st Athe1st is offline
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

I agree that the premise as it stands is speculative.

I think the more tangible (and underlying) question is "Why would you want a god to exist"?
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  #19  
Old 24th February 2017, 11:25 PM
Azurisan21 Azurisan21 is offline
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

A better question to refine with is, since god is a religiously constructed concept:

Why do religions exist?

How about that?
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  #20  
Old 24th February 2017, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: Debate: God Exists

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Sendraks said View Post
Yes, superstring theory isn't a scientific theory, it is 'theory' in the sense of speculation put forward by scientists.
I don't agree with this. Yes, there is some degree of speculation, but it's still a theory, although this might be an artefact of the way I use the nomenclature, reflecting a hierarchy of epistemology, which is as follows:



In this hierarchy, M-Theory is a theory, because it's an integrated explanatory framework encompassing all the facts, hypotheses, laws and observations pertaining to a given area of interest, that area being everything.

I think that even the more robust way these terms are used among the scientifically literate doesn't really capture the essence of them, especially with regard to what constitutes a theory.
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