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  #11  
Old 9th January 2018, 08:36 AM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: How To Own a Fundie Nicely

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Strato said View Post
I agree DBd.

And what you yourself expound on, evolution by natural selection and epistemology, how knowledge is acquired and accumulated are the themes it is most expedient to stick to in such engagements.

Jason Gastrich asked Dan Barker where morality came from? A perfect question opportunity to provide the Darwinian account, the right explanation. Evolution is the account of biological life. That is awesome.The meme is a brilliant, neo-Darwinian insight into cultural evolution.

Clearly Gastrich is clueless on evolution. Barker should really study the subject. There is a bit to it.

I thought Gastrich was a curmudgeon. Also just going through the motions, mulish. Barker was doing all the higher order thinking for him. Gastrich then emailed that he had been too easy on Barker, all in the name of civility and amity. Grasping to reinstate the preeminence of his rap.

Also I think Barker's lifelong ardour for the truth was his eventual salvation. Intellectual honesty led him to enlightenment after being this kind of super-Christian, living 'by faith.' His account of his Christian life, at the beginning of the podcast is pretty interesting.
Indeed, and religion holds the seeds of its own destruction. I remember at the GAC Dan commented when he did his lecture/sermon circuit as a senior memeber how different communities of the same believed/perceived the church views differently, and shockingly so. If what he believed was a self-evident truth, then that should not be.

Again it goes back to ignorance. Personal ignorance, ignorance in a small community and what we do or don't know as a species. And how ignorance is viewed and the different ways we deal with it, or indeed to deny it. "Mystery, ergo god!

Of course, if people's brains could undergo a cold reboot like computers, we could remove the malware and poisoned directory trees easily. Just boot up the PC in a change-rooted environment [like booting via optical disk instead of the contaminated hard drive], go in, fix all the problems, replace the corrupted OS with the good one from the CD, and you are done!

With human computers, we obviously can only do a warm reboot, and there are various possible ways this can be done, and some have ethical concerns. For example, a mild electrical shock can temporarily reduce religiosity. [E.C.T. is making a comeback]. Anti-psychotic drugs perhaps, in cases of severe delusion and addiction. The idea is to "free-up" mental processes and pathways to make them more flexible. To get them out of a rut, as it were.

Fundamentalists have really strict firewall rules. Where most minds are relatively open. So part of the problem is how to relax the firewall, or find some way around it.

But overwhelmingly, the problem is emotional rather than factual. Not only [justified] anxiety about losing social connections and supports [family, friends and church/social], but dealing with reality, including the reality of uncertainty, self-reliance [no daddy-god to protect you] and mortality.
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  #12  
Old 20th February 2018, 09:38 AM
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Theorease Theorease is offline
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Default Re: How To Own a Fundie Nicely

RE the OP -ah but we don't like promoting atheism/destroying belief in god/religion do we

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Keep It Real said
Targets modified today:

6 Jehovah's Witness street preachers
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surreptitious57 said
If this is what actually happened then no problem although I suppose they had an answer for everything which makes debating them rather pointless
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Keep It Real said
Of course they didn't have answers...I mean they presented their "arguments" but I showed them their invalidity. I'm (slightly) sorry to say one of them did actually start crying (circa 50 year old male) but as Gandalf says "not all tears are an evil."
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surreptitious57 said

Can you remember what it was you said to him to make him cry
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Keep It Real said
The usual - abiogenesis in the proximity of hydrothermal vents; protobiotic molecules; 4.28 billion year old fossilised microrganisms; the robustness of the theory of evolution; the pope's declaration that the TOE is no longer a mere hypothesis; if I wrote on a piece of paper "purple is the best colour" would that make it true and what's the difference between that and the bible...stuff like that.
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surreptitious57 said
He might have started crying because he couldn't refute it so possibly some consciousness raising occurred there
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  #13  
Old 20th February 2018, 10:15 AM
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Darwinsbulldog Darwinsbulldog is offline
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Default Re: How To Own a Fundie Nicely

Theorease wrote:-

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RE the OP -ah but we don't like promoting atheism/destroying belief in god/religion do we
.

Sure, it is sometimes hard not to enjoy a certain amount of Schadenfreude when defeating someone's silly, perhaps even dangerous position on something. Faith based thinking [not just religious, eg anti-vaxxers] can lead to bad public policy issues in regard to education, law, medicine, etc if they become too popular.

Many atheists [but not all] think that religious beliefs can not only be toxic to out-groups, but in religious communities also. The main problem is not private belief per se, but how this often translates into a blurring between church and state, bigotry towards certain groups and so on.
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